Episode 12 – Building Success: Jason Winkler’s Approach to Leadership, Mentorship, and Relationships

Todd Bertsch: 0:08

Welcome back to BOLT Podcast. I’m Todd Bertsch, your guide on this exciting journey of personal growth and leadership, where my guests and I will share personal stories from our transformational journeys of how small changes can lead to massive results. You’ll discover tips on overcoming obstacles, setting and achieving goals, building lasting habits, living a happy, healthy and positive life, and so much more. If you’re ready to cultivate a growth mindset and become the best version of yourself, then let’s ignite your growth today. On today’s episode, we’re thrilled to welcome Jason Winkler, president of Summit Construction, a commercial construction management firm based in Akron, ohio.

Todd Bertsch: 0:52

Jason has a deep passion for mentoring and employee development, which drives his leadership style. Growing up in Barberton Ohio, he honed his competitive spirit through sports and learned the value of hard work from his parents. After earning a civil engineering degree and playing baseball at the University of Akron, jason has built a successful career focused on building relationships, giving back to the community and growing businesses. Listeners, this is going to be so good. I’m so excited for this conversation. Please welcome Jason Winkler to the show. Jason, so good to see you, my friend. Welcome to the Bolt Podcast.

Jason Winkler: 1:29

Thanks, Todd man, I’m pumped to be here. I’ve been looking forward to this and following as you start this journey down the podcasting world. It’s been. It’s fun to watch so far, yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 1:41

And it’s cool because you and I are like swapping podcasts, right Like you’ve. You’ve provided me some really great recommendations that are now my staples. And it’s interesting that hopefully, mine has become part of yours it has.

Jason Winkler: 1:56

We’re getting in our routine right these last couple of years that we’ve gotten to know each other. You know it all started with books, right and continuous learning, this kind of lifestyle, and then, you know, the last couple of years, these podcasts start to really take off and it’s something that you can do as you’re driving or you’re multitasking or whatnot, and I’ve certainly got into it.

Todd Bertsch: 2:16

Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s our connection too, right when we first met.

Jason Winkler: 2:19

that was kind of how we hit it off and right. But it’s all about growth, and that’s what you’re doing here. That’s why. I’m excited for you. Yeah, following your journey.

Todd Bertsch: 2:32

Well, I guess, yeah, we could kick off with that, just how we got to know each other. So we went through Leadership Akron, class 39, together and connected, not really during the class but after the class and now we meet. We’re, I’d say, really good friends, meet every month for breakfast and we get off our island, you know, as two business owners running a business, leaders in the community, and we just talk, share, vent if we have to.

Todd Bertsch: 3:00

But it’s really important to have that tribe and I just posted about this the other day. It can get really lonely. I don’t want to say at the top because it sounds so elite, but let’s be honest, you are. I mean, you are the president of Summit Construction Company and I run Evolve Marketing and it can be. It can be lonely up there and we all need to have people that we can confide in and have a safe space that we can have an open conversation and just talk right.

Jason Winkler: 3:27

Our wives.

Todd Bertsch: 3:28

You know your spouses or your partners. They don’t want to hear about it honestly you know the first couple of years. Sure they’ll oblige and say, yeah, whatever Todd Next. But now you need somebody that can relate and have that and I think that’s how you and I just bonded and we’ll get into it.

Jason Winkler: 4:01

But we we have a lot talking about our lives a little bit, and what your struggles are, what, what I’m struggling with personally and professionally, and you start saying, wow, okay, I like your style.

Jason Winkler: 4:11

Right, and then and then one late one thing leads to another. We have breakfast and we get together and then, um, but you, you gotta surround yourself with people. I mean that’s uh, you know you mentioned in the opening about, like my parents and my family, my brothers. Without them I’m not here. So you have to surround yourself with good people. So, professionally, I always think that way, but then personally, and just who I am, and I think that’s the root of our relationship is you know someone that thinks like you and you’re a good person, and that we can bounce ideas, we can challenge each other. Here’s how I’m growing, here’s what you’re. You know, some of the journaling that we’ve talked about I mean, that’s in the last year is really grown me personally, and that’s credit to you.

Todd Bertsch: 4:54

And it took a while it did and that’s okay. We talk a lot about that on the show, like you just have to start Right and you’ll fail and you got to get back up.

Jason Winkler: 5:04

Right, I mean, that’s a whole nother conversation there too. Failure is really growth. Yeah, that’s my next episode Trying to tell either guys at our company or even my daughters right, it’s okay to fail. You need failure. You need to really learn from that, though, but that’s part of the growth process, and it feels like our breakfast right Like our conversations.

Todd Bertsch: 5:26

We’re going down a couple of rabbit holes here and you know it kind of energizes me Every time we have breakfast, I always walk away a little bit more refreshed and energized. But that’s what you want. You want to, and I think the key is really. You know they say at work right, surround yourself with great people and people potentially better than you, smarter than you. That will challenge you and that’s great. But I’m talking here about building a tribe of support outside of work, you know, and that’s that’s what you and I have, and I have with some others and you as well. So I think that’s kind of the lesson here is just to get off the island you know, and this is, this is the type of relationship that you can have.

Todd Bertsch: 6:07

You know um, find somebody like-minded has the same core values, same work ethic, you know.

Jason Winkler: 6:14

I’ve heard it categorized as like your personal board of directors and I think that’s interesting. I don’t know. I try to look at it that way. Sometimes you have a different skillset and a different way of thinking and I have other relationships that look at things differently and if you can, you couple that together to make your personal kind of board. I think that’s a good balance to growth and challenge. And yeah, you talk about tribe. I talk about like this personal board of directors yeah, same, same same thing right, yeah, absolutely Right.

Jason Winkler: 6:44

Same concept, same kind of fundamentals to that for sure.

Todd Bertsch: 6:47

Cool, Well, we’re going. I think we’re touching on all the different things.

Jason Winkler: 6:51

How far do we want to dive into each of those? That’s the intro.

Todd Bertsch: 6:54

All right, but let’s. I think it’s important to start from the top, right. So, yeah, you and I are friends and we’ve talked a lot of different things, but and I have a lot of entrepreneurs on the show, which is awesome this is about leadership and growth and taking risks. What I love your story is a little bit different, although it’s very similar you and I, but it’s a little bit different in that you didn’t start a business. You came in and took over a business, right, and I love it. To me, it’s amazing. I don’t know, you’re such a humble guy you probably won’t like it, but to me it’s like a goodwill hunting story, you know, I mean, yeah, you weren’t a janitor like I was, you know, but yeah, so you know. You.

Todd Bertsch: 7:35

Here, you are a project manager right At the same company, summit Construction. Yeah, and you do this for a couple of years. You leave, try something else. Then you get a call and now you’re running Summit Construction $130 million company. You’re the president of this company, 60 plus employees you’re responsible for. So take me through, take our listeners through. How does something like that happen?

Todd Bertsch: 8:00

Because I think it’s important for people to hear this and say it could happen to anybody. Right, but what’s? What was that journey like?

Jason Winkler: 8:09

It’s overwhelming when you think of it that way, right, like, because I think I try to really focus on the blocking and tackling and just doing our jobs and if we do that, the results will take care of themselves. But you know, for me it always goes back to hard work. And that’s again referencing my parents and my family and the way I was raised in Barberton. And this has been proven, you know, or at least it’s given me some success, because when you work hard and you’re raised that way, that things aren’t just given to you, that goes a long way. Right, and you referenced, you know, when I was at Summit Construction in the early 2000s, right out of college, and I had a chance to go work for a big developer doing real estate across the country, I got a chance to meet the CEO of that company and one of the things that struck that conversation was the fact that I was from a blue collar family and we worked hard and we mowed lawns to, you know, save up money to to buy tennis shoes.

Jason Winkler: 9:08

Um and those principles are what I live and breathe off of every day, and I think it’s again nothing is handed to us, so we got to work hard for things and I think if you live by those values, the good things will happen. Also, relationships relationships are everything in the timing of meeting different people. Again, I’ve mentioned, you know, forming a relationship with the CEO of that company. It’s the same thing with the founder of Summit Construction. I formed a great relationship with him and built trust and he had the trust in me to come back and be part of his succession plan. But it’s all relationships, it’s people. We have a great business with great people and I’m just, I feel blessed just to be along for the ride.

Jason Winkler: 9:49

Right Like I’m. I’m in a position where I have influence over the company, but without the great people we have. So it goes back to surrounding yourself with good people. At our company we have great people. So, yeah, that’s kind of that transition. So, yeah, again going back to the size of our company and the growth, those are just results. We’re really focused on building solid relationships, really focusing on accountability, doing the right thing. When we tell a client we’re going to do something, we have to do it and hold our subcontractors and our relationships accountable. So yeah, that’s a bit of the story going from PM to present.

Todd Bertsch: 10:28

Yeah, that’s cool and I’m sure there was a lot in between there. What kind of time span are we talking about? Five, seven years?

Jason Winkler: 10:38

For Summit, specifically From project manager to. So when I was in the early 2000s as a project manager, then I and again I left it wasn’t that I left to go to a competitor. It was just a different opportunity to learn different skills.

Todd Bertsch: 10:51

Sure.

Jason Winkler: 10:52

I kept a great relationship with Summit Construction Right, and that was in 2007. So right before the recession. So that was all. That’s a whole nother story of being naive and not knowing how bad you know the recession was, of being naive and not knowing how bad the recession was. And so I learned a lot there again about relationships and how the business worked. So then I came back to Summit and a couple of partners in 2015. We again were part of the succession plan for the founder who founded Summit in the early 90s. Yeah, so from 2015 to where we are today again, we’ve tripled in size and tripled the amount of employees. And yeah, so that’s a bit of the timing.

Todd Bertsch: 11:29

Okay, and you’ve been there how long now? Or as president, nine years, nine years Wow.

Jason Winkler: 11:34

I mean, that is crazy to think about.

Todd Bertsch: 11:37

We were just talking about the days and the years. Right Days, slow years, fast, right, the days are long, right?

Jason Winkler: 11:44

Whoever? I don’t know who to give credit for that quote, but the days are long, but the years no. The opposite, right.

Todd Bertsch: 11:50

Right. Days are long, years are fast. That’s right. Yeah, time flies, time flies. Well, I mean company Evolve Marketing and I’m in a position now where I’m thinking about my next act and choosing a person to kind of take the reign, and I’m trying to put myself in the owner’s shoes at Summit Construction and I see it like meeting you. I’m like, yeah, you seem like the kind of guy that would be perfect, but that you say, yeah, building relationships and trust that doesn’t happen overnight right.

Todd Bertsch: 12:30

No For someone to say, hey, I’m going to hand you the keys to the business that I built. That says a lot about you, your character and that hard work ethic. So obviously you impressed him to a degree that he felt that comfortable to bring you in and and you know some others in a team you know to run this thing and I know that’s that’s not easy to do.

Jason Winkler: 12:53

No, and that was the biggest risk, right, you know. So I’m working for this big publicly traded company and doing fine. I was traveling a lot, so it was just. Timing is everything.

Todd Bertsch: 13:01

It is.

Jason Winkler: 13:02

I just had my second daughter and, you know, traveling a lot, so it was like I felt the need to be at home a little bit more. And that’s when the founder had reached out and we started talking about potentially coming back. And the biggest risk and the biggest thing that I was concerned with were the people there. Would they trust me? Would they respect me? And you know some of these people I worked with in the early 2000s when I was there. And that’s the beauty of the company we still have the day.

Jason Winkler: 13:26

We have guys that have been there over 20 years and that are still as loyal, as the day is long and but that was a concern for me, Right, Would they accept me back into this role?

Jason Winkler: 13:37

And that took a while to build that trust, but that was a huge concern on my end to make like man. This could backfire, right. I’m leaving this great job and I’m growing there and a lot of opportunity, but it was something to really grow roots and make my own, to really take on that entrepreneurial spirit. Luckily, they accepted me back and we we we formed great relationships and today that’s where I try to spend most of my time. I mean, I really try to. We’re a people business.

Jason Winkler: 14:05

So I’m trying to develop our teams where we’re mentoring the young people. How do I continue to talk and mentor our young people and be a part of it? We have a big presence in Columbus and I spent a couple of days this week down in Columbus just going to see the guys. There’s a couple of new team members down in our Columbus office that I haven’t spent much time with, so I got to go to their projects and see them and that’s really where a passion is too right. That’s another mentoring and really, because succession planning is all about like right now, I’m thinking about, you know, the next 10, 15 years right.

Jason Winkler: 14:39

When I try to step away from the company and who’s going to be stepping in there. So I really, really try to focus on a lot of time of our existing people but then finding new people that are the right fit for our culture, that can balance us out.

Todd Bertsch: 14:55

Right and it’s all about. Yeah, it’s amazing to me. I know you mentioned the comments I think last time we had breakfast about you really try to meet with all the candidates. That you’re recruiting as much, and I obviously Columbus you know, that can be a challenge, but 90% you you meet with.

Jason Winkler: 15:13

I try to, and that’s.

Todd Bertsch: 15:14

I think that’s. That’s a lot, you know, and I think it’s a credit to um the longevity and the type of people that you have right To be able to have that initial conversation and for the candidate to say, wow, the president of the company is taking time out to meet with me. So right away I have a good indication of what the culture is like, what it’s going to be like to work for this company. So I think that’s cool. I don’t know how you do it from time-wise. I’m sure you wear a lot of hats, a lot of responsibility, but so it’s a balance, right, and I don’t meet with everyone, right.

Jason Winkler: 15:49

I wish I could, because it’s that important right. We’re in a people business and you know, like our superintendents and project managers, these, these folks that are on our project sites, they’re the frontline to clients right, they got to like them and they got to communicate well for us to to build those relationships with the clients.

Jason Winkler: 16:10

So it’s so important of who we are as our people. So if I can spend more time there, I want to, but it’s also having the trust in the rest of the team members to handle the finances, handle the accountability on other projects, so so that I can spend more time with the people and and even our clients. I love spending time with the clients and building those relationships, or architects and engineers, subcontractors, it’s just again, relationships.

Todd Bertsch: 16:29

Yeah, that’s funny, you. You keep saying it’s a people business and I guess I wouldn’t think construction, a construction business, is a people business. You know, it surprises me, but as you talk through it there are a lot of different people in different roles and I guess it does make sense.

Jason Winkler: 16:48

You know and what we do. You got to obviously know construction. You got to have a certain skill set and a certain knowledge level on the technical side. Right, that’s a piece of it. But a lot of times working with a designer that they know the equations, they design it. So we take that design and then we go to subcontractors. So we have to communicate that there are subs to say, okay, you got to pour this concrete or run this electrical, so that’s communication. And then when it comes time to start the work, you got to communicate when this sub is going to start. And then you got to keep the client up to date. Then you got to work with the art, so it’s just all communication. Now we do have some self-performer. We’ll have some carpenters and laborers that are actually performing physical tasks and whatnot, but most everything else is being organized and communicating Project management.

Todd Bertsch: 17:37

Project management when you started.

Jason Winkler: 17:39

Absolutely, and that’s my bread and butter, that’s what I love, but it’s so much communication and a trust right and over time building trust with the partners.

Todd Bertsch: 17:52

I mean they’re big projects.

Jason Winkler: 17:53

They could last a year, two years, right? Oh yeah, we have a Lancaster High School that’s a four-year project. Oh wow, that’s a challenge in itself, right. The beauty of our, why I got in the construct, because it’s always different. Right, I can go to job sites. I’m in the office, it’s, it’s. But you get some of these bigger projects and these guys can be on there a long time and that’s. You can worry about burnout and things of that nature.

Todd Bertsch: 18:18

So right like everything else, balancing act yeah, yeah, and your focus, ed’s, you focus, ed’s, you said it, ed’s in meds, ed’s in meds. Yeah, we do a lot of healthcare, a lot of schools and really try to focus on those two.

Jason Winkler: 18:30

And then there’s always relationships and opportunistic, but we really try to focus on those two.

Todd Bertsch: 18:36

Yeah, that’s cool. So let’s go back to the early, the humble beginnings. Like I said, you and I have a lot in common. You grew up in Barbaden. I grew up in Gidger Heights, two very blue-collar, middle-class neighborhoods. Right, our families, I think, had similar core values Hard work ethic. I’ve mentioned it on the podcast several times. Both my parents had two jobs as long as I can remember and, like you, I was mowing lawns, shoveling drives to get that extra money and then I peddled papers, newspapers eventually, and paper boy.

Todd Bertsch: 19:13

And that’s how you learn and it’s hard. Today you have three girls and I have two kids. And how do you and I’ve listened to other people on shows like how do you teach your kids that resilience when all we’re trying to do right is just make it easy for them and give them the things that we didn’t have Right and I hear a lot of people talking about that and people that are very successful. They definitely have the means right. They could give their kids everything that they want. But being intentional and taking a step back and saying, well, if you don’t build resilience, if you don’t fail right, if you’re just handed the silver spoon, what’s your life going to be like and when you really start to get out there, what’s your life going to be?

Jason Winkler: 20:03

like.

Todd Bertsch: 20:03

And when you really start to get out there, are you going to be scared? Are you going to be afraid? Not take risks and just learn that it does take hard work. And yeah, you see, you know social media, these influencers. Yeah, you have one video goes viral and next thing you know, you’re singing for Journey. You know, doing a tour around the world. That doesn’t happen to everybody, right, that’s just. That’s kind of like being an athlete it’s one in a million chance lottery, but I think it is important.

Todd Bertsch: 20:30

I’ve been thinking a lot about that, like, how do I instill these things in my daughter, as opposed to just the easy way and just buying her whatever she wants? You know, you and I had to. You know, if we wanted those nice spikes or those extra, those cool batting gloves, you know that had the colors and the wristbands. I had to save up and you know, looking back, like I appreciated that stuff, like you better believe I took care of it and had it for years, right? So I don’t know, I think this is a challenge even for people, you know, that are maybe in a middle role. You know that maybe don’t have the means of some of these. You know big, successful people, but it’s a different mindset that I think is going to be a problem here in the next 10, 15 years. You know where. You don’t have these kids that have come from earning their keep, earning their stripes and failing and building resilience. I don’t know what’s your. Is there something that you’re doing with, with your girls?

Jason Winkler: 21:29

Oh my gosh, right. So when you figure it out, please let me know, because it’s one of my biggest concerns. For sure, right, like like you said, we have similar backgrounds, blue collar, work hard and now we’re doing okay for ourselves, right, and our, our kids.

Jason Winkler: 21:43

Um, you know, typically if, if they want something, or we go to the store or whatnot, or we go on a trip there, you know, luckily we’re, we’re, have the ability to, you know, buy them souvenirs and so but my wife and I talk about it a lot and we try to cause she came from a blue collar background as well and a lot of the same values and whatnot. So I think, really talking to them right and letting them know that, yeah, you may have the means to buy that or have that or the luxury to go on an extra trip or do whatever, but not everyone does. And you gotta, you gotta work hard in this world and I think, as my daughters are starting to get into some sports and some activities and whatnot now, it’s a time where you got to work hard. Nothing is given to you.

Jason Winkler: 22:29

And I think that’s where some of those values and that at least I’m trying. But I’m experimenting every day and this is sometimes. It almost feels like work can be easy and mentoring people and I have such patent that I’m comfortable there. But when it comes to some of these, am I doing the right thing as a parent and not giving them too much and not? I certainly don’t want them to be entitled.

Todd Bertsch: 22:52

Right.

Jason Winkler: 22:52

Right. Like I’m, I’m really fearful of that and I think the way to to do that is to talk to them and really, like, make it a priority to express that, like your mom and I, we worked really hard and here’s some of the examples of how we worked hard to get to the point where we’re at, where we can afford a house and we can afford, you know, nice cars and things of that nature or just just any car Right. So it’s, it’s talking to them, but, again, I’m experimenting every day and figuring it out, and that’s where, you know, go back to that mindset of continuous improvement. It’s one of the levels of my life or areas of parenting that I’m not 100% confident I’m doing the right thing, but I’m trying to figure out the right way, because I think we want the same goals. We want them to be successful and able to be resilient and make decisions and not just have everything handed to them.

Todd Bertsch: 23:45

Right.

Jason Winkler: 23:46

And I think that’s another touch on our company and when young employees mess up that same mindset that it’s okay, right, you’ve got to learn from it, though Not every project’s going to be just handed to you on a platter and successful.

Jason Winkler: 24:01

You’re going to have a subcontractor or someone or a challenging owner that’s, and you got to figure out how to get through that and it’s part of your learning, it’s part of your adapting and I think the more that we go through those situations, the better we’ll be and if you have the right mindset right. But I’m also an internal optimist that I want everyone to look at situations like this is a learning experience, even though this subcontractor or whatever situation, it’s really hard and they’re difficult and you’re pulling your hair out, but can you step back for a minute and look at it as a positive experience. So I think that’s part of building that resilience and I think that’s important, whether you’re talking about parenting or companies and I’m sure you deal with it too on the marketing side and your your company not not everything you guys are getting into is going to go as as planned.

Jason Winkler: 24:51

It never does.

Todd Bertsch: 24:52

We’re cause we’re really dealing with technology and the web. There’s always something, and when we build a, you know, a website redesign project could be a year long project, you know, just like your construction projects, anything that goes over a couple months. There’s so much life that happens in so many people and lives that are involved in that something’s going to happen. You’re going to have somebody that you worked with that leaves that job and go somewhere else, maybe one of your own employees. You’re going to have somebody that’s going to have a baby, somebody that’s going to get sick right there’s, there’s just going to be these things that you can kind of plan for.

Todd Bertsch: 25:29

And then there’s going to be the curve balls. You had no idea they were coming Right and you know a good curve ball. Um you can you know those are hard to hit um, hard to plan for, right. So it it is difficult. But I think, like you, and it sounds like what you’ve done for your company is build this culture and this mindset of failing fast, failing forward, embracing failure, but, you know, owning up, learning from it and then moving on.

Todd Bertsch: 25:58

but not being afraid to do so, not coming down, and I love how you said just really having that optimistic, positive spirit. I think when people see that and not just talk the talk but walk, the walk right and see you do the same thing, and I tell my team all the time hey, that’s my bad, that was my mistake, I own it, I’m going to learn from it and I’m going to move on.

Todd Bertsch: 26:24

I’m not perfect, I’m not sitting up here in this golden office just thinking that you know I’m the best thing since sliced bread. I’m continually learning and improving. I think it all starts at the top, you got to show them. You set that tone and it just trickles down and hopefully they see that.

Jason Winkler: 26:40

Yeah, they definitely do and I think you have to. No one’s perfect and you got to show your vulnerability and how you, when you mess up like I, make bad decisions all the time and I got to own them Right and people will see right through it if you don’t. Right, right If you make a bad decision, you start to try to blame other things. People will read right through that and then you lose trust. Right, right through that and then you lose trust right, so you gotta you gotta own it.

Jason Winkler: 27:03

Now there is mistakes and failure out there, that if it’s laziness or you don’t care, those are. That’s when it, or you. You’re doing the same thing, the same mistake, same mistake.

Todd Bertsch: 27:14

Then those are different conversations.

Jason Winkler: 27:15

But if you’re if you’re doing the right thing and you’re trying to get better, and those are stuff that happens every day and you need to fail you need to learn. You need to grow in that way. So, it’s fun. But going back to your baseball reference, that’s where, right, a great hitter hits a 300 batting average. Right, that’s good, that’s failing seven times out of 10. Right, you learn to fail.

Todd Bertsch: 27:40

Right, I want to talk about your, your passion and your experience with sports, sure, and specifically baseball. So I read in your bio you talk about being, you know, probably at a small town like Barbadan, same with me and get your heights, you know, being one of the best, right? You probably not an ego, but you know you’re there and everyone’s talking to you. Yeah, you’re confident, right? I don’t know, you’re there and everyone’s talking you up.

Todd Bertsch: 28:04

Yeah, you’re confident, right? I don’t know. Did you get a scholarship? Yeah, we did. So you get a scholarship at the University of Akron to go play ball. You get there. Sure, Do you want school? And?

Jason Winkler: 28:16

what happens? Well, gosh man, that starts. I got to go back to the beginning right, oh, okay, and you know I have an older brother and I have a younger brother. So still to this day, you know I give them all the credit in the world for sports and my dad, my dad and you know we didn’t have video games and phones and stuff.

Jason Winkler: 28:33

He’s like get outside and go play. And I was lucky enough to grow up in a neighborhood where we had a lot of kids and so if it wasn’t street football or baseball or wintertime tackle football in the snow, right, we were always out there playing. And my older brother right, his friends are two years older than me and you know, if I can hang with them, then as I grow and get around kids my age, I’m like, oh, this is easy. And then my younger brother benefited that way. I mean, he went on to play college sports and is now in the strength and conditioning world and successful in that sense. But I give credit to my older brother and his friends to start. And then, as you go through elementary school, middle school and into high school, and then I was lucky enough to really find some really good friends in high school through sports and that kept us out of trouble. And I still text, talk to him every every weekday.

Jason Winkler: 29:26

I’m still very close, with six or seven of them that live in different parts of the country. We still try to get together, but those guys I have to give the credit. I mean again Friday night, when you’re in high school and we’re preparing for a game or something like that, we’re not out drinking and partying and stuff.

Todd Bertsch: 29:42

I mean we had our fun. Don’t get me wrong, Right we?

Jason Winkler: 29:44

weren’t innocent, but those guys kept us on the straight arrow and pushed each other Right. So giving those guys the credit, and my brothers and my family enabled me to be once. Once high school came around, it was just how I was wired and it’s still kind of how I’m wired to.

Jason Winkler: 30:00

You know I’m very competitive and work hard, and a lot of those same traits come into the construction world and where I’m at today. So, to your point, right in high school I was pretty successful in football and baseball, and once you go to college and it’s division one, right, then it’s something that I never experienced before. Then you start to experience well, wait, all these other people here are the best of their towns and the best. And then you got seniors and juniors that have been in college for a couple of years. So it was a rude awakening. I ended up redshirting my first year and it was kind of planned.

Jason Winkler: 30:32

I knew there was a senior catcher at Akron when I when I signed to go there, but then it’s. You know, as time progressed, these are all the best of the best in their worlds, right, you come here. So it was really taught you or taught me early on that how to deal with failure and in a little bit of struggle right, I didn’t get handed the job right away, so it taught me about hard work. I had to hit more, I had to do more and, like you said before, in balanced school, and I was really competitive in trying to get my engineering degree. At the same time, it just taught me great fundamentals about hard work and discipline.

Jason Winkler: 31:08

And, yeah, so that’s my baseball stories, but it was. It was, you know, when we look at our company and we go to recruit people or we meet new people, if, if you have a sports background military, and I mean some of those competitive values that you learn through sports transfer to the real world, I mean it’s just a, it’s something that’s still in me, there’s something that gets me revved up every day and I think we’ve hung out a couple of times. Right, if we go and play cornhole, we can do whatever.

Jason Winkler: 31:36

Even my brothers, if we’re going to dinner and my parents, like we’re in their 40s and whatnot, I’ll push my brother out of the way to get to the restroom first, or if I’m going to sit there first.

Todd Bertsch: 31:44

So it’s just in my blood so that’s a bit of my background with baseball and how it translates to today.

Todd Bertsch: 31:51

That’s cool. Yeah, I love it. To me it’s a humbling story. Right, you were humbled and I’ve been through the same thing. I tell my wife like I’m fortunate to be very athletic and I can pick something up very quickly, and I have a case of the just good enough syndrome, where I can get to a competitive level rather quickly and then I want to go do more without having the training and really the time right the reps and I go do and I fail. I did it with racquetball, I did it with bodybuilding, breakdancing like time. You know just, you got to do the reps, you got to put in the work For sure you know like.

Todd Bertsch: 32:36

Ryan Hawk always says right, yes, you got to do the work. And Malcolm Gladwell says it’s the hours right Outliers 10,000 hours. Right Outliers 10,000 hours right, you got to do it, but it’s good to be humble and that builds that character. It builds the resilience and life lessons now that you’ve brought into your company that helped you get where you’re at. But now you’re transcending that down to your employees and that’s the beauty of it. I love that.

Jason Winkler: 33:03

Yeah, and I didn’t think about it back then, right, but now it’s like these type of opportunities where. I can kind of think back. And it’s really all those people you surround yourself. I mean that’s full circle, this whole conversation. You’re surrounding yourself with good people and people that have challenged you and push you, and I didn’t realize it, but that’s what was happening in high school right.

Jason Winkler: 33:20

Even when I got to college and I formed good bonds and relationships there with guys that were able to push and think alike and I just those are the roots of everything we’re talking about here, right, so which is fun to think about, right? I don’t often take a step back and think about this stuff.

Todd Bertsch: 33:37

Right, but it’s about reflection. We talk a lot about that on this show is being mindful and taking a moment to reflect, whether that be through prayer or through a gratitude practice, or through journaling, which I told you about several times and you’re like, dude, I’m going to do this, and eventually, and I have been, and it’s been great.

Jason Winkler: 34:00

And you know we talk a lot and it’s kind of blurring the lines of all of our other conversations to this one. But getting up early, right, that’s another fundamental that I learned early on. My dad was always a morning person and it was we’d find ourselves going to breakfast just him and I early because we were the only two up. But being able to get up early and think, and you know, carving out time, right, we talk like atomic habits and some of those type of things.

Todd Bertsch: 34:26

Or I’ve heard you talk Robin Schwarmer recently, right, it’s over there the 5 am club, right, you know, own your morning, elevate your life. That’s exactly I mean that’s it.

Jason Winkler: 34:37

I’ve tried to focus intentionally more on that lately, but I’ve always been a morning person, but I’m trying to really get a little bit more concrete habits early on.

Todd Bertsch: 34:44

Yeah, it’s not just about being a morning person. It’s about what do you do with your morning, Cause I, my morning routine sucked for years. As much as I talk about and claim to be this really optimized person, I have this whole life optimization system and and I am pretty optimized my morning routine sucked and I recognized it and I read Robin’s book 5am club and, honestly, I changed my morning routine. It’s changed my life.

Jason Winkler: 35:12

That’s amazing, I am not joking.

Todd Bertsch: 35:13

Right, I am not joking. I used to get up, get right to my phone and boom, that was it. I was already hijacked at that moment. Get right to work. Now I get up and 10, 15 minute walk, brisk walk in the morning, so I get some movement. I come back either outside on the patio or inside and I’ll have a couple of minutes. So basically it’s my reflection time. So a little prayer, a little gratitude practice and a little meditation, and then I’m getting some time.

Todd Bertsch: 35:41

Then it allowed me to now take my daughter to school. Every day. I get a seven minute commute, but it’s seven minutes that I’m getting some time with her. I never had that before. And bonus I’m helping my wife, I’m packing her lunch, I’m taking her to school Two things she’s always done, and now she doesn’t have to worry about it. So it’s like the trifecta of wins. But had I not been cognizant and intentional about that and really read Robin’s book, it just resonated with me and I said this is the piece that’s missing. Now I’m fully calibrated, and the mindset that you get into to start your day you know, they always say breakfast is the best meal of the day.

Todd Bertsch: 36:21

Well, having a morning routine a consistent and intentional morning routine will change your life, how you start your day.

Jason Winkler: 36:29

So sorry, I went on a little tangent, but I’m a huge fan. Tip of the iceberg. You’ve just named three or four different things that that’s changed, and there’s probably many more than that. Yeah, right, your energy level, just your clarity as you get to work and you’re not distracted, and you can go on and on about the value of it. Right, and you and I have talked a lot about this. I’m trying to formalize that more and more. I’m experimenting with how my mornings go, but definitely staying away from electronics, right?

Jason Winkler: 36:57

And getting some time to breathe and really just clearly think and gratitude has been big right. I don’t think I don’t spend enough time really being grateful for the opportunities that I’ve been given and the relationships and just everything right.

Todd Bertsch: 37:14

I can go on and on about that but I still.

Jason Winkler: 37:16

That’s not enough right. I’m still very grateful and I think that goes back to even raising your kids to be grateful and be appreciative and be humble, I think. Or again, you talk about core values, of how you live your life. That’s what I want to instill in my kids and even our employees and to that, oh, I think, get rid of the entitlement and whatnot. But I know they diverted from the morning routine but, I just your energy, everything that comes from being up early and thinking clearly.

Jason Winkler: 37:47

I think more people should spend some time or more time on that, for sure.

Todd Bertsch: 37:49

Yeah, and I love. You know my routine didn’t that didn’t happen overnight, right Like it took, like James Clear says, about 20, 21 to 30 days, and I’m still. I still have times the weekends. I’m not good at it, so I don’t know why it’s just. It’s different, you know, cause I have kind of a ritual going to work five days a week. So you know I’m continually and I love how you said experimenting, testing iterating right, like, and everybody’s going to be different.

Todd Bertsch: 38:18

Some people have to go to work at a certain time, some people have to get their kids ready and, depending on how many kids and packing lunch and making sure they have their homework done and brushed, you know what I mean. Like, those are things that you have to do for other people, but you still everyone can take five minutes just to themselves. If you just start there, it could be just five minutes of gratitude, journaling, taking the dog for a walk, whatever, listen to a podcast. Just five minutes for you, and then you can start to build and you’ll see that compound.

Jason Winkler: 38:50

Exercise is another big piece of morning routine, right To try to fit in. Some people aren’t aren’t and I know you said you take a walk and whatnot, but trying to get. I think Matthew McConaughey years ago said he tries to break a sweat every day and I think those are little simple things, but exercise is a big piece of a morning routine.

Todd Bertsch: 39:10

Yeah, and I think expectations.

Jason Winkler: 39:13

This is something I struggled with too right. That’s why I like experimenting, because that’s managing expectations, because I got to a point where I was trying something new and it wasn’t really working and I would get discouraged. Working and I would get discouraged. But if you think to yourself and that’s where I think more people can get use out of it where it’s like okay, I’m going to experiment, this may work, it may not Don’t get discouraged.

Jason Winkler: 39:36

If it doesn’t, you just have to adjust and tweak it and I would get. I would get frustrated if something wasn’t working.

Todd Bertsch: 39:42

Right, well, that’s your, and that goes back to your competitive nature and that can, that can be a killer too right as much as it can be a catalyst for success and help you push through right, dig in and keep moving forward. It can also hold you back right. You can be your worst enemy and it goes back to failure. I’m going to have it on the next episode. It’s all about you just have. You can’t beat up on yourself.

Todd Bertsch: 40:09

Give yourself grace and be grateful and happy and celebrate that little win that you started, that you even thought you know. You took the advice about journaling. You said, okay, I’m going to consider this, I can see the benefits, I’m going to consider when. And then you do one time when and next thing you know, oh my gosh, now I’m journaling every other day, or on the weekends, or once a month, and yeah, it’s a system, right. I mean, it’s building habits. Those things don’t happen overnight. Learning to brush our teeth did not happen overnight. Tying our shoes.

Jason Winkler: 40:45

But managing expectations. I just have been thinking a lot about that lately, and I think that’s where exercise. You hear a lot of people that right after the new year they’re going to exercise and they do it, but they’re not seeing the results right away. So their expectations go downhill right away. You got to stick with it, right, and it’s part of the process. Don’t over commit what that expectation should be, so then it turns into a negative and discouragement. So right, you got to manage the expectations. But little steps, little steps, right. I’ve heard people talk about building buildings. Right, what I do?

Todd Bertsch: 41:23

one brick at a time You’re not going to put a whole wall up one brick at a time, one and James clear is brilliant with that, build that foundation, little that foundation first, yeah, exactly, and then you can pull in all, you can bolt on all those other pieces, but people want the end result right, and that’s where you got to start slow, do the consistency, do the little things.

Todd Bertsch: 41:42

The results. You said it hard work, results will come, whatever that is, promotion, salary, new car, meeting someone, falling in love those things will happen if you’re a good person, you work hard, you earn it. But you have to embrace the journey. You get too focused on the end result, being a perfectionist, being competitive, beating up on yourself. You won’t get anywhere. You’ll be on the treadmill. You have to just embrace it. It’s a journey I love that.

Todd Bertsch: 42:15

And just embrace. That took me a long time. My life coach, she drilled that into me and after about a year I even had my phone, my background on my phone. I had it so I would see it every time I looked at my phone embrace a journey, embrace a journey. And finally it just stuck. I’m like what am I doing here, checking off these boxes? I want to get to X. Well, what happens when you get to X? You’re just going to want something else. Like no, just all these iterative, all this work you’re doing, all these failures, all these bumps, all these lessons. It’s part of it. If you need to enjoy that, that’s where the beauty is right, the messy, middle, right.

Jason Winkler: 42:49

That’s the journey and I love that right, almost like something that makes me think of, like Simon Sinek in his book I forget which one of the books. The Infinite Game, probably the Infinite Game right, not best right, because that’s a point in time that’s always getting better right and I love that concept.

Jason Winkler: 43:07

It’s about the journey, it’s not about this end result, right? People ask us, with our company all the time, of our goals, and we try to put goals. I’m just. If we do our everyday blocking and tackling and building relationships and doing the right thing, the results will take care of themselves. And that’s something I battle with too, because I think you do need goals, but you can’t be so fixated on just that end result Right.

Todd Bertsch: 43:34

There’s a balance. You’ve said it a number of times today it’s all, everything is a balancing act. It really is Well good segue, Speaking of balancing acts. So you’re a busy guy, you’re running this, this big company responsible for a lot of people, a lot of heads, and you have three young daughters, three kids, not only three kids, three daughters.

Todd Bertsch: 43:55

I have a daughter, you know, and we have one about the same age, so I can definitely relate in that respect. How do you, how do you do all this and you’re involved in the community and you have all these other relationships in your tribe and breakfasts with me how do you balance? Do you have any tips, tricks, hacks, strategies that you can share with listeners? Because I think to me that’s one of the most important things and, as people say, yeah, balance, integration, whatever you want to call it. You have life and work and all these other things.

Jason Winkler: 44:24

There needs to be some synergy between all of them Love the concept and I can talk forever about this, but it’s being strategic and I love strategy. Right Like growing up, there was this game of risk.

Todd Bertsch: 44:37

It was like conquering the world.

Jason Winkler: 44:38

There’s all this strategy and those types of things really revved me up and I kind of look at my own life that way too. And that’s the importance of getting up early, thinking clearly and thinking what that day is going to entail and what the week and being very intentional about the strategy for myself where the company’s at personally, and then being very detailed with that right. When I get lazy and sloppy, that’s when things fall through. Right, where I can’t make one of my kids sporting events, or where a commitment at work is is lagging or we didn’t put our best foot forward. So it comes with upfront, being very intentional. And again it starts with the 5am club, right, like I’m up early in order to get things in order, so then I can prioritize the day.

Jason Winkler: 45:28

But I’m always experimenting, right, this is another balance experiment. All these things are constantly in my head on prioritizing where’s the best use of my time and what relationships need internally, externally, personally, what needs work. But if you’re always on the go and reacting, you won’t be able to strategize and prioritize where you need to be. So that’s where the journaling and reflecting and taking time to really think. You know, as I’ve gotten into this role and over the years and in different advice. That’s one thing to get out of the weeds, be strategic and I use that with the business, but also personally. Right, I can, I can feel what I’m out. Balance If I’m not exercising. I’m not perfect, I’m not. I’d love to exercise every day.

Jason Winkler: 46:13

But when you have deadlines at work and things and sporting events and tournaments and whatever, so it’s not perfect, but if I go a couple of days without exercising or without part of my routine, I start to feel it. So I need to get back in balance.

Todd Bertsch: 46:34

But you can’t do all that if you’re not organized and strategic about it. So so is it a gut check for you, or do you have a system, or is it the journal where you’re, you’re being intentional, reflecting notice. You’re like, oh man, I have an exercise, or oh man, I’ve missed. No, it’s a gut. It’s a gut, it’s a feel and, to be honest, and you and I’ve talked- about this as well.

Jason Winkler: 46:48

How do I formalize that a little bit more? And that’s where I think some of the habits that I’m trying to create and be consistent with are just they’re not on paper, they’re not anywhere. It’s just. I know, when I wake up in the morning, I’m not looking at my phone. I don’t check emails, typically until I get into the office or I just I try to stay away from the electronics, but that’s not written anywhere. Right, that’s just part of my habit.

Jason Winkler: 47:12

So, I’m trying to figure out how to formalize that more so I can stay on track. I don’t have like a you know a document where I’m tracking my workouts Right. I feel like I need to sometimes yeah. So it’s. It’s a bit of still work in progress to try to experiment, and it really is but it’s a gut check.

Jason Winkler: 47:29

Going back to what you just said there of I know when I feel out of balance, whether I’m not spending enough time with the family, I just, but you gotta be strategic, you gotta check in on that. If you’re not thinking that way, then then you may not know you’re out of balance spending that time to block it out. And again, I think you’re and we’ve talked about this you’re more detailed and you have your formal plan with that. Where other people, it’s more of that gut check.

Todd Bertsch: 47:56

Yeah, and a lot of people that have been on the show, because I asked this question a lot, because I think it’s really important and I’m genuinely curious how other people’s doing. Yeah, me too. I don’t think there’s a silver bullet. If there was, there’d be a book on it, and there have been several good books on time management and things of that nature. But and it’s going to be the person, the season in life, their job, you know everybody’s very different, has unique situations. I think the key is just being intentional. So I love that you’re even thinking about it, right. I think that’s the first step and not just going. Because, next thing, you know your kids are 15, 18, you know, going into high school, going into college, and then you’re like, oh crap, you know you can’t. You can reflect on it, but you’re probably going to have a whole lot of regrets and what’s what’s important to you at that time.

Todd Bertsch: 48:44

you’ll never get back, and time is the one thing you can’t buy. So yeah, I don’t think there’s any right or wrong way. I think it’s just being intentional.

Jason Winkler: 48:54

Right, and that’s how I look at it, because you can get in the weeds of whatever you’re doing and keep your head down and go. And you’re right. 20 years later, you’re thinking to yourself man, I should have taken a step back. And that’s one thing I’m trying to continue to do more is step back right and be grateful, but also, what can we do? What can I do a little bit more strategically and different? I don’t know that that step back being intentional is really important.

Todd Bertsch: 49:19

Yeah, I love that. I love the way that you frame that stepping back Cause to me, that’s for me, it’s pausing either way right. You’re, you’re reflecting that. You’re reflecting, that’s just it. You’re stopping, you’re not reacting right.

Jason Winkler: 49:33

Those are all relatives to the same kind of concept, right, right?

Todd Bertsch: 49:36

And I think that takes time. I know, certainly that wasn’t the way that I was built. I had to change that and I’m not perfect, but I’ve came a long way and I’ve used tools. I’ve read books, podcasts, went through programs to help me get to that place.

Todd Bertsch: 49:56

But have you? You have such a calm demeanor. Ever since I met you, you just seem like this, just such a chill, relaxed guy. How do you do? Do you ever get mad? Like I can’t imagine you getting upset or mad, so. But the question is like were you always this way, or have you gone through a program?

Jason Winkler: 50:13

Have you gone through some changes? I’ve not gone through a program. I do think you know having brothers and you know a bit of chaos around. I’ve always just been able to deal with a bit of chaos and keep cool with it. But it’s also part of sports too, right, like being a leader, if you’re down three runs and you got to come back, you got to stay calm and cool in that situation.

Todd Bertsch: 50:37

So I really I don’t know where that necessarily comes from.

Jason Winkler: 50:42

And, like my wife who, there’s something that happens at home, right Something goes on and she’s freaking and I’m just I don’t know.

Todd Bertsch: 50:53

I’m blessed to be wired that way where I can stay calm. Be grateful for that, because I was the exact opposite and being in sports and competitive who.

Jason Winkler: 50:57

that was not a good mix, but I think, as a leader, you need that, um that bit of stoicness too, and I, I, I agree, I’m intentional about that though as well. Like I really try to be self-aware of the situation and stay calm when you need to, and but I can definitely get fired up, right, um, you know, and I think, getting mad, I don’t. I’m not a screamer and a yeller, right, like people. People always ask me that quite a bit right, running a construction company and employees and do you get mad?

Jason Winkler: 51:30

absolutely, I get mad, but I’m very factual and very direct when it comes to that kind of stuff right, you don’t need to be you don’t need to be right unless most of the time if someone’s doing something malicious or you know that’s really trying to get to my team in a negative way, then I can switch a gear a little bit, but I really try to carry myself in a demeanor that’s got a bit of stoicness to it. I don’t know. So I try to. But I’m intentional about it. I really try to Because there’s times where I want to freak out, but I’ve got to stay in the field right, that was good.

Jason Winkler: 52:12

I don’t know where it came from.

Todd Bertsch: 52:12

to be honest, it’s there but at least you’re cognizant and you want to keep it right. You haven’t lost it, so it’s always been there and that’s what’s made you probably a great leader, why you’ve come into these leadership roles. You know all those traits.

Jason Winkler: 52:30

Honestly, the more I think about it, todd the like my dad’s a really mellow guy and but when a decision needs made, it’s like let’s go Right. But prior to that and I think I think I have a bit of that in me as well- Okay, awesome, yeah, well, this has been great, man, we could.

Todd Bertsch: 52:45

We could go on for for hours, right, right, I really could man. We could go on for hours, right, I really could man. I appreciate this.

Jason Winkler: 52:51

And I just keep bouncing ideas back and forth because I’m learning. As we sit here, I’m thinking through things and hearing you, and that’s the beauty of it Right.

Todd Bertsch: 53:00

That’s the beauty, and the key is that you’ve embraced continuous growth. That’s it Right, and we all need that. We all need help. We need to get off our island. We all need to realize that we can be better. We can be better and when we’re better and we take time for ourselves, we’re better for everybody that we serve. That’s exactly right. So we’re better leaders, we’re better parents, we’re better coaches, in whatever capacity that is Like. We’re just better. So the fact that you’re embracing the journey right and continuous growth is is awesome. And speaking of continuous growth, I know you’re a big fan of podcasts and books. What book are you reading right now and what would you recommend to our listeners? What’s like one of your top books?

Jason Winkler: 53:47

I mean I have a several books. I know, I know it’s going to be a tough one and I’ve even tried to, and maybe this isn’t, but I’ve tried to go a little bit more fictional.

Todd Bertsch: 53:55

Yeah, I’ve had a couple of guests that have said that.

Jason Winkler: 53:57

You know, because the nonfiction book, all the like the Simon Sinek stuff, and I’m a huge fan of Ryan Holiday, I know.

Todd Bertsch: 54:05

You turn me on to him.

Jason Winkler: 54:09

I just got a new his new book. I haven’t read it yet Discipline is destiny Okay. So his previous books about egos, the enemies some of those books are fantastic and it’s all stoic driven Ryan Hawk. I have his book, the score, oh yeah, the score that matters. The score that matters. Not read that yet. So there’s a couple in the waiting wings. Gotcha I think you gave me the the the Marshall um Marshall Goldsmith, goldsmith book.

Todd Bertsch: 54:31

What got you here? Won’t get, won’t get you there.

Jason Winkler: 54:33

Exactly.

Todd Bertsch: 54:33

So again three or four of those stacked on my desk and you’re going to get another one today. Nice, yeah, christmas is coming early. Yeah, shannon Lee, you don’t? That’s one of my favorites. I’m actually reading it. I’m about three quarters away through right now.

Jason Winkler: 54:50

You mentioned the Bruce Lee one too. That’s intriguing. That’s it. Oh, that’s it, yeah, yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 54:54

Shannon Lee, his daughter.

Jason Winkler: 54:57

Yeah, she wrote that.

Todd Bertsch: 54:58

Now I’m even more excited.

Jason Winkler: 55:00

No, so it’s like I’m always trying to find something and to continue to improve on man how about you.

Todd Bertsch: 55:08

I’m reading Be Water, my friend.

Jason Winkler: 55:10

And then I just got.

Todd Bertsch: 55:11

Scarcity Brain. I think, you told me so Michael Easter, who was on the Ryan Hawk show. Oh, it was a great, great episode.

Jason Winkler: 55:20

So he’s got two books. Scarcity Brain that podcast is amazing. It is yeah that guy, he’s interesting. I don’t miss an episode.

Todd Bertsch: 55:25

No, every single one is solid. So yeah, I’m like 20 deep. I’m addicted to books. I’m addicted to buying them, I think more than anything.

Jason Winkler: 55:33

I know I just can’t find.

Todd Bertsch: 55:35

Oh, I shouldn’t, I can I just yeah, I’m so busy right now. It’s not my reading season, I’m learning, but fall’s coming for us in the Midwest, Like it’s a great, great time to just wind down the evening.

Jason Winkler: 55:51

There’s you know, there’s no FOMO Like it’s so nice out. I was.

Todd Bertsch: 55:53

So many events I I can curl up earlier with a book, you know, on a weekend, and not feel guilty that I’m missing out on something. So I’ll get through. I’m we had a conversation about the other day here at work. I’m trying a new mindset about books and it’s not about the quantity, it’s the quality. I was, oh you know, I got goal of 12 books, 15 books, one a month. I gotta get through a check and I’m just trying to burn through them like I’m not really comprehending it and I’m not really taking it all in. So now I might get through half, but I got 10 pages of notes because as I’m going through I’m like literally manually taking notes like a research, like I’m in school and I’m learning so much more, so less, but I’m still buying them. So I still got a ton, but I gift a ton. Everybody that comes on the show gets a book. So I’ve I’ve done a lot of gifting of Robin Shorma’s book the Monk who Sold His.

Jason Winkler: 56:47

Ferrari which.

Todd Bertsch: 56:48

I’ve told you about, and then you’ll get to be water my friend. But no man, this has been great. I love our conversations, I love you, man, and it’s been a big inspiration for me. So I’m grateful that you’re part of my tribe, that we can have those. I look forward to that monthly breakfast and I hope everybody can find that person or persons right that can help them and just talk about the personal growth stuff.

Todd Bertsch: 57:12

We’re all learning, making mistakes and failing and iterating. If you can have an accountability partner or somebody just to toss ideas around, we all need help and we it’s okay to ask or, you know, to have somebody to talk to. So this has been great, man. I, you know, I’m so proud of what you’ve done, the company that you’re building and the growth and the leader that you’ve become. I think you’re just a great person, mentor, you know, somebody to look up to for what it’s like to be a great leader, you know.

Jason Winkler: 57:43

I certainly appreciate our relationship and you said something recently that you’re 53 and just starting, and I think our relationship is just starting and I can’t wait to see what you do here with this podcast and just you personally and your growth and love being part of your tribe and you’re part of mine, and we’ll see what kind of fun we have in the future yeah, hopefully we can play some catch.

Todd Bertsch: 58:03

Let’s do it. I got mitts and balls downstairs. Let’s go.

Jason Winkler: 58:06

Come on, we would probably be really sore the next day I’ve been playing a little bit my 13 year old daughter’s really okay, so yeah I miss playing catch.

Todd Bertsch: 58:15

You know, my daughter just got right, she just got that.

Todd Bertsch: 58:19

Um, that rebounder. Oh for volleyball. She’s gonna try volleyball. And I text a picture to my dad. I said you remember this and I, you know he’s in a 70. I couldn’t believe he said you remember this and I, you know he’s in his 70s. I couldn’t believe he said yeah, you wore the hell out of that thing. So, as baseball, I would go in the backyard talk about iterations, reps, I would throw against that thing just to play catch with myself all day, all night. And pop-ups and grounders, like that little rebounder. It’s really the same thing. It’s pretty simple, right? Metal frame with a net.

Todd Bertsch: 58:48

It was cool to bring back those memories and oftentimes I think we need to do that. We need to part of a reflection, to go back to a point in our childhood when we were so excited about something, and it was. For me, it was baseball, for sure, if there was a rain out.

Jason Winkler: 59:03

If there was a rain out, I look so forward to that.

Todd Bertsch: 59:04

If there was a rain out. I look so forward to that. If there was a rain out I would be so upset I’d cry Like I just wanted to go compete and the fact that I could do offense and defense. I was in it the whole game.

Jason Winkler: 59:18

It’s just. It’s a great game.

Todd Bertsch: 59:20

It is a great game and if you have patience it can serve, and I didn’t, and so, anyhow, there’s plenty of that on most Ste. Plenty of that on on most stepping back, stepping back but, playing catch.

Todd Bertsch: 59:30

Nothing like just well, let’s go play catch, playing catch. So, anyhow, thank you, my friend. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. You are on your way to growth, transformation and joy. If you find this episode helpful, please like and share with your friends. And, by all means, like and share with your friends. And, by all means, please leave us a review. You can also view the show notes and subscribe to the bullet newsletter at toddbertsch.com. Remember, real change takes time. Start small and watch that growth take shape Bye.