Episode 24 – How to Prevent Burnout and Cultivate a Thriving Workplace with Michael Levitt

Todd Bertsch: 0:10

Welcome back to the Bolt Podcast. I’m Todd Bertsch and I’m thrilled to be your guide on this inspiring journey of personal growth and leadership. Together with my guests, we’ll dive into transformational stories, uncovering how small, intentional changes can create massive positive results in your life From overcoming challenges and setting impactful goals to building lasting habits and living with confidence, health and positivity. We’ll explore it all and, if you’re ready, to embrace a growth mindset, and unlock the best version of yourself, then let’s spark that transformation today.

Todd Bertsch: 0:46

Today’s guest is Michael Levitt. Michael is a burnout survivor, ai solutions consultant, global thought leader on HR and wellness, therapist, keynote speaker, author, executive coach and host of the Breakfast Leadership Show podcast. Michael, welcome to the Bolt Podcast, my friend.

Michael Levitt: 1:04

Great to be with you today.

Todd Bertsch: 1:06

Oh man, I was really looking forward to this conversation. You and I share a lot of the same passions and have had similar challenges, so you wrote a book. When did you write the 369 book?

Michael Levitt: 1:19

That came out in 2017. And if you want to be a bestseller, don’t release your book the same day that Hillary Clinton releases her book. Don’t do that, yeah.

Todd Bertsch: 1:30

There you go, guys. We have a lot of listeners that are soon to be authors, including myself, so good advice, thank you. So, yeah, let’s get right into that book. I read through it. Wow, it’s called 369 Days, right.

Michael Levitt: 1:45

That’s correct. Yeah, how to Survive your Worst Case Scenarios.

Todd Bertsch: 1:48

How to Survive your Worst Case Scenarios. And you definitely you did this, so you get incredibly personal, you get vulnerable. Take us through the cliff notes of how did this? What kind of year? I mean, you had a one hell of a year what happened and how did this change your life?

Michael Levitt: 2:06

Yeah, back in 2007, I was hired as a healthcare executive just outside of Windsor, ontario, across the border from Detroit, michigan. That comes into play in a moment. So here I am in a startup healthcare organization. I’d never worked in healthcare before, but I had a lot of startup experience and that’s the reason why they hired me, even though I didn’t know exactly why they hired me for over a year. Then they finally told me it’s usually do you want the offer? Yes, usually. Don’t ask well, why did you hire me?

Michael Levitt: 2:33

What did I say no one asked that stuff and I certainly did. But I found out later it was because my startup experience and they knew that I’d be able to pick it up pretty quickly and I did. But in being with a startup, and especially if you’re an entrepreneur or you’re working for a startup organization, there’s a lot of stuff going on and for me, even though I was an employee, I treated this organization as if it was my company and I probably shouldn’t have done that, but I did and I just was working and working and working, didn’t know how to delegate, even though I’d been a manager or an executive before. I just didn’t know how to delegate in the healthcare setting Because the healthcare workers were so busy helping with patients and everything else. So I was just. If it was anything administrative, I was doing it, even though we had admin staff on board. Long story short For two solid years I was pretty much working from 6 am to 11 pm, seven days a week.

Michael Levitt: 3:29

I was constantly working, doing things and all of that, and it came to a crashing halt in May of 2009, which kicked off what we talked about before, my year of worst case scenario. So, over a period of a year, this is what happened In May of 2009, I had a heart attack at age 40 that should have killed me. The cardiologist that put the stents in my arteries told me you should be dead. I accused him of skipping bedside matter class in medical school. He laughed. I laughed my mom and my first wife they didn’t find that joke funny at all, but we thought it was funny. We had a good time with it. But then that kicked off the rest of the dominoes where 17 weeks later, after recovering from my cardiac event, I went back to work, or attempted to, and they decided they wanted to go a different direction. So they let me go.

Michael Levitt: 4:21

2009, great recession. Anybody remember that? Needless to say, jobs were nowhere to be found. People that had jobs certainly weren’t going to leave them. So it took me several months and finally a relocation, to be able to find a new job. So found the new job, started working there. It was about three and a half hours from Windsor. I started working there. It was about three and a half hours from Windsor.

Michael Levitt: 4:47

I decided, okay, let’s get back into the swing of things. My family was still back in Windsor, so I was renting a room, basically until we could find a place to rent and move the family up. I finally found that. But then, prior to moving, I got a phone call. It was like my second week at work and my oldest daughter, who was 10 at the time, called and said and she was crying, couldn’t understand. I think she was saying finally I was able to get from her that the bank had come and they repossessed her family vehicle.

Michael Levitt: 5:17

The reason why they did that was when you are on unemployment if anybody’s ever had the pleasure of that we know that that doesn’t pay a whole lot. So I was the main breadwinner in the house, so that went down. So basically, I had to cover our food and our expenses and plus heart medication, those a thousand dollars a month out of pocket and I didn’t have any insurance. So eat, keep alive, or make the mortgage payment and the car payment and made the choice. Now we had worked and I always recommend this if you are in financial difficulties, always work with your creditors. Don’t ignore the calls. You call them. Don’t wait for them to call you. You call them. Keep them up to date and they were very gracious for as long as they could be. But if you remember, this is the Great, a great recession, there was a lot of people going through the same stuff. So ultimately they said, all right, you know, you guys aren’t making payments, we’re going to exercise our right to take the vehicle back, which they did, and then like, well, that’s unfortunate. Thankfully we had a second vehicle which I was driving and was paid off, so we didn’t lose that. So finally get the place to rent, move the family and then, after we’re unpacking and everything, realize we left the bunk bed ladder for our daughter’s bed back at the old house. So I was going back there the following weekend, meet with some friends, close up some accounts and get the realtor or anything else you need, because we were going to list the house for sale. And so go visit and do all the things. Go to the house to go get the ladder, open up the front screen door and I see the largest padlock I’ve ever seen in my life. You can’t get these at Home Depot. I mean this thing was massive and there was a sticker on the door that said foreclosure.

Michael Levitt: 7:02

So in a year, heart attack, job loss, car repossession, home foreclosure and all those things happened to me because I was burned out. I was so burned out that I was making mistakes at work, I wasn’t taking care of my health, my relationships, friends. I stopped going to do things that I love doing. Everything was a mess because I was working so much that I was so burned out that everything fell apart in my life and thankfully I survived it. Now at that point thankfully I did a lot of work during that time between the heart attack and the job loss Started to do a little bit of reflection, going okay, this is not where I want to be. I’m very fortunate. I know I’m lucky to be alive. What do I need to do to make sure this never happens again? So I’d already started doing that work.

Michael Levitt: 7:50

But after all of those things happened, you know, I closed the screen door at the house and this always throws people off. It was the most serene and peaceful moment I’ve ever experienced in life and everybody’s like what you just saw your house foreclosure sticker. You can’t get into it anymore, it’s no longer yours. How can you be calm and serene? Because I knew that was it. I had survived everything else. I already had a job, had a vehicle, had a place to live, my health was getting better. So literally I felt the breeze. I heard birds chirping. It was quiet.

Michael Levitt: 8:38

It was a Sunday morning, it was very quiet and I just closed the screen door and then called back, called up home and said, yeah, I bought the bunk bed ladder. We’re not going to get it or anything else that’s in that house, because they foreclosed us. And what was so frustrating was, for some reason I don’t know what happened, we weren’t getting any calls from them and they stopped sending us letters Because you know they’re saying when we’d send back and correspond and all that. We told them we’re getting ready to sell the house. So you solicited remaxax, it’s going to be sold, um, but they ran out of patience again because a lot of people are going through the same situation.

Michael Levitt: 9:09

A lot of foreclosures were going on then. So it was like, well, but the house was ready for sale. So you know, when the bank resold it, you know, wasn’t a case like the house was destroyed and they had to go in and patch it up and all that? No, it was showroom, ready to be sold.

Michael Levitt: 9:29

So whoever bought the house, you know, I’m sure they, you know they bought it through foreclosure and they’re like okay, what kind of mess do we have? And it’s like there wasn’t one Well, other than a bunk bed ladder, but no bunk bed. So I’m sure they disposed of it, or maybe they repurposed it for something, I don’t know. But that was one of those pinnacle moments that years later ended up birthing the company and the work that I do, and that wasn’t my intent. After recovering from that, ironically, as you know, I was working in health care. Probably should have paid attention to what they were telling people, but I was back in health care and stayed in that field, for, let’s see, that was eight years after that, that field for let’s see that was eight years after that, but I kept.

Michael Levitt: 10:04

After a few years, after recovering and doing things better and living a better life, I started looking at my peers. I’m like, uh-oh, they’re going down the same road I did. I can’t, no, I can’t stand by and just say, yeah, good luck, no, I need to do something. So I started talking a little bit within the industry little breaks and little sessions at conferences and whatnot and then from there it’s like maybe I should do some consulting on this because I I have a unique perspective on this. I had it, so I know the science of it, know how to get out of it, know how to prevent it. So I’ve kind of done the whole thing.

Michael Levitt: 10:42

I probably should say I’ve done it all so you don’t have to um, that’s probably a good phrase for me to use because, I don’t want anybody to ever go through anything remotely close to that and unfortunately a lot of people have and a lot of people are approaching that, and I see it. During the pandemic and post-pandemic I saw burnout just absolutely skyrocket, which was the opposite of what I thought was going to happen. At first I thought everybody got sent home.

Michael Levitt: 11:09

Everybody can take a breather time out and go all right, and a lot of people did. A lot of people did a little bit of reflection and realized I don’t want to do this anymore. So they left their professions and started doing something else. But a lot of people didn’t. It’s still a big, big problem for a lot of people.

Todd Bertsch: 11:26

Yeah, absolutely Wow. Well, first off, kudos to you, man. I’m glad that you obviously made it through that. Most people would have just jumped off the bridge. Honestly, that’s a lot right. It’s one thing to have a heart attack, it’s another thing to lose your house, but, oh my gosh, all those things to happen consecutively in one year. Most people wouldn’t have been able to make it through that. So I don’t know if you believe in everything happens for a reason, but obviously you were put here to do other things, my friend, and fortunately for you, you were able to find your purpose in life, which is a beautiful thing.

Todd Bertsch: 12:06

Not a lot of people have that opportunity and unfortunately, michael, what happens and I love, I really love what you’re doing. I think if you can get people before right, they get to burnout or to that point where it’s just going to fall off the ledge to have that educational components or that moment with them. But typically what happens is it takes a traumatic or life triggering events before somebody realizes they need to make a change. You know, that’s just the nature of who we are. My message and what I’m trying to do is similar to you in that I’m trying to get ahead of it right To educate people, to say, hey, let’s just cultivate a growth and open mindset all year round. Let’s not wait for that or not, that they’re sitting at home waiting for it, but let’s not let that happen. Allow that to happen. Let’s just get in front of it and start to have these conversations.

Todd Bertsch: 12:59

And it could be just 1% better every day, right, just small shifts. But unfortunately, I think a lot of people live in a fixed mindset and are comfortable and cozy and they just go through the motions. And I think, in your case, I’ve done the same thing, my friend. I’m an entrepreneur. Ironically, I started my business, my Evolve Digital Marketing Company, in 2009.

Todd Bertsch: 13:22

And those first few years I was approaching, or probably hit, burnout and I also had my second child during that time. So imagine starting a business and having a child and my wife called me out and said hey, man, you’re not putting in the time, time here. I need you, I need your support and fortunately I had a good foundation and we worked together as a team. But there were definitely moments where I wasn’t aware of burnout. I need you, I need your support and fortunately I had a good foundation and we worked together as a team. But there were definitely moments where I wasn’t aware of burnout.

Todd Bertsch: 13:49

I grew up in a blue collar environments and scrappy and just work your ass off until you get there and keep working, and I felt like that was what I had, because I didn’t have the MBA, I didn’t have all these other things, so I had to accommodate it, right with extra work. But certainly once I got into the personal growth path, I saw the lights and that’s definitely not the way to go. So I love, unfortunately, what it took to get you here, but I love what you’re doing. I agree with it, and we put out a lot of the same messages here on the bolts. A lot of the same messages here on the bolts.

Todd Bertsch: 14:26

In fact, I just launched two solo casts in the past month about work-life balance and decision fatigue, which tie in, you know nicely with with your message. Definitely it’s.

Michael Levitt: 14:33

It’s one of those things where and you mentioned a moment ago about you know people being I don’t think you use the word lazy and there’s an element of that, but I think we like to be comfortable and we we spend way too much time on the most dangerous street you can be on, which is comfort avenue. You can’t you. You gotta grow, you gotta challenge yourself, you gotta grow, even if it’s a one percent a day. Well, right, you know, if you, if you take weekends, that’s still 260 percent. I mean you, almost three X yourself in a year. Imagine what your year would look like. And, right, no matter what the economy looks like, no matter who is the political party in charge, none of that matters. As an individual, you control your destiny matters as an individual you control your destiny and I am of the abundance mindset.

Michael Levitt: 15:29

Where it’s out there, you can go get it, doesn’t matter what’s going on. During the great depression which we’ve seen all the footage and the films and all of that and maybe we know some people that were alive back then, not an easy time there were people that were prospering during those times. Okay, what did they do? How did they do it? You know what it wasn’t because their last name was Rockefeller. No, there were people that normal day-to-day people that were doing well, or at least okay, during a really difficult time. What did they do? Figure it out.

Michael Levitt: 16:00

What’s your role in this big thing we call life? And figure that out. Give it your all, give it your best. Be the best version of you by taking care of you first. That’s what’s so important.

Michael Levitt: 16:12

As entrepreneurs and dads and parents, we give, give, give, but if we’re not taking care of ourselves first, then what we’re giving is watered down or crap. Quite frankly, it’s not good. So be your best. That way, when you do give, when you do serve, whatever you’re doing, the recipient is getting the best version of you, and that’s one of the biggest reasons why I don’t like seeing people burn out, obviously from the tragedies that can happen from it. But when people are burned out and they’re working in companies, the products and services that those companies are making aren’t as good. I want the best. I want everybody to have the best, because I’m selfish, I want good stuff. I want the coffee I drink to be good. I want the tea to be good. I want the computer I work on to be good. I want the restaurants near me good. I want my accountant to be really good, please be good. I want the computer I work on to be good, I want the restaurants near me.

Michael Levitt: 17:08

Good, I want my accountant to be really good. Please be good. But having said all that, when people are at their best, then you don’t have retention problems at work. You don’t have the high stress chronic diseases. Having worked in primary care for a long time, you know pretty much every chronic disease. You know whether it’s not paying attention to the other parts of your body, which is when you start gaining weight or dealing with hypertension information. Information is a huge one and that one couple, those two together, you’re having a good day.

Todd Bertsch: 17:56

Yeah, sarcastically it’s right, right, it’s not good.

Michael Levitt: 17:59

No, address the stress. You know, get ahead, yeah, address the stress, get ahead of it.

Todd Bertsch: 18:03

Yeah, Address the stress. I like that. Yeah, Amen, brother, I’m all about what you’re saying. I think the challenge, Michael, is and I’m actually in the midst of formalizing what my first book is going to be about and one of the concepts I keep coming back to because I’m really interested in that mindset continuum. I’m really interested in that mindset continuum. It’s when we have the fixed and the open on the other side. How do we get somebody? And I think what you and I are trying to do is really impact as many people as possible.

Todd Bertsch: 18:35

But there are a lot of people that are in a fixed mindset who aren’t open to growth. You know, I think it’s an easier sell, it’s an easier message, an easier conversation to have when somebody is already on that continuum. Maybe they’re not full bore growth, but they’re at least open to it. So what I keep coming back to, Michael, is one word and that’s curiosity.

Todd Bertsch: 19:00

So we, all we, at some point in our life as kids, we were curious, right. You know that inner child within us. We were curious, we explored, we wondered, we asked questions, right. And then at some point we get into a box, you know, as we grow older and we lose that curiosity. So I think, if we can just tap into and ignite that spark within us, that curiosity spark, and then just be open, like you said, to learning and learning about burnouts and learning about personal growth and a growth mindset and positivity, we won’t have these traumatic events and these triggers in our life. We’ll be getting better every day. We’ll be cognizant of stress and how it impacts us in a negative way. So yeah, I think we’re talking about the same things. We’re just in different circles and focusing on different aspects, but it all comes back to having an open mindset right and just being cognizant of where you’re at and where you want to be and where you don’t want to be.

Todd Bertsch: 20:04

So I think it’s when you can have someone like you share that story. Like what I read, I was like, oh my God, like this guy, he’s not just blowing smoke here, he’s been there, he’s done it. I’ve had some things in my life, some struggles and challenges, and I’ve been doing the work and I’ve been going through positive intelligence and personal growth for several years now, and I’ve been going through positive intelligence and personal growth for several years now and I’ve seen it. I’m a whole new person. So it can happen. You just need to be open to it. So, anyhow, I’m off my soapbox, michael, sorry, but you got me excited here, so tell us about how do you help people? So if somebody, what are the telltale signs of somebody that’s approaching burnout?

Michael Levitt: 20:47

Before I get to that, I want to comment on the curiosity component. That was the game changer for me when I was recovering from my burnout and everything else during that 17-week period. Because the natural unfortunately the natural habits that people have is when something bad happens to them and you know they’re to blame, a lot of times they point fingers, they blame somebody else. Why did this happen? They’ll just be mad and miserable or they beat themselves up. I was so foolish. Why did I do that? And I avoided that because I’m like, look, I’ve already been beaten up, I don’t need to beat myself up anymore. So when I was going through the exercises of kind of figuring out, okay, how did I get here? I use childlike curiosity, and this was before I went to therapy or anything like that. I was just thankfully. I said let’s approach this as if I was the four-year-old version of me and let’s just ask questions. Okay, why was I working all those hours? What was I trying to prove or accomplish? Was I trying to stroke my ego? No, or why was it so important for me to do the work that I did? Build this startup healthcare organization in an area that needed additional doctors? Why was that important to me, what was I trying to accomplish? And went through all the exercises, through all of that and it was very, very helpful. And I can’t say that I do it all the time. But when I’m going through something, whether it’s a challenge or working on a project or whatever, a lot of times it’s like, okay, let did I get to this state. But that’s a little bit deeper into the work. But the signs I see time and time again with people that are burned out, number one is they’re fatigued, they’re not sleeping well, they stop doing things in life that they enjoy doing. And you know a real quick story on me During that time I was burning out.

Michael Levitt: 23:06

For the 369 days I was a season ticket holder for the Detroit Tigers, so I lived in that area and there was a group of us that went to the games. This was when, like 2006, 2007, 2008. I love baseball. My first career as an accountant was because of baseball cards, because I love calculating the stats on the back of the card or figure out how to do it. So loved baseball. I quit going to the games. I paid for the tickets. Everything was paid for With the season tickets. Your parking is paid for, your food voucher is paid for, your beer voucher is paid for, your seat is paid for. You’ve got to get there. That’s the only thing you’ve got to do. You can’t just use fuel in your car to get there. I quit going because I was burned out and that should have been the hugest red flag on the planet, but I completely ignored it.

Michael Levitt: 23:53

So that’s another sign is, even though you’re in this state and you’re worn out, beaten up, frustrated, irritated, all that. The signs are there. I mean literally they’re billboards, but you’re flying by them, doing you know a hundred miles an hour. You’re not seeing what’s on the billboards. So that’s a big thing.

Michael Levitt: 24:12

If you start having more digestive situations or health-related issues, again that’s your body telling you. When you have those things, that’s your body telling you. It’s a messenger. It’s like, hey, you probably should reconsider doing this or you need to rest a little bit more. Again, I mentioned you.

Michael Levitt: 24:31

I mentioned making mistakes at work, because when you’re not sleeping, you’re not getting good rest. That impacts your cognitive abilities, so you don’t see patterns, you don’t recognize things. So you’re looking at a spreadsheet and you’re trying to find where the error is in the calculation. Before ChatGPT, you’d have to fumble with it. You can just say, hey, here’s this spreadsheet, I can’t figure it out, what’s wrong. It takes it right out, but before that it could be right there and you wouldn’t see it because you’re just so wound up, burned out, fatigued, You’re just basically numb.

Michael Levitt: 25:04

And a lot of people ask me it sounds a lot like depression, clinical depression and burnout A lot of parallels. As somebody that’s been through both of those situations, the biggest difference for me in that is when you’re burned out, you’re still able to function, You’re still okay to do things. Yeah, you’re digging deep in the reserves and you’re not really doing it well, but you’re at least there. Sometimes the depression, depending on how bad it is, you’re just not willing to or you can’t, you don’t have the, not the energy, but you just don’t have the drive or the willpower to do it. You just want to curl up and go into a corner. But there’s still a lot of research going on between those two. We’ll see how that all plays out years down the road, but it’s a huge problem. The World Health Organization, prior to the pandemic, classified workplace burnout as basically a workplace phenomenon and issued an ICD code, which is usually reserved for diseases, but they issued one for workplace burnout.

Todd Bertsch: 26:06

What’s an ICD code?

Michael Levitt: 26:08

ICD. It’s basically they classify diseases, so they assign it an icd number. But they didn’t classify burnout as a disease, do? I think it’s a disease understanding health care. I don’t think it burnout per se is a disease, but it is definitely a symptom or a condition which has all these other ingredients going on.

Michael Levitt: 26:32

And again, you want to get ahead of it before you have to go to the doctor and get on medications or take heart medications or any of those things Because I’m not going to argue medicine versus non-medicine or anything like that but medicine does take a toll on your body over long periods of time so, depending on what it is, it can impact other things. So, ideally, if you can eat the right foods for you, you don’t have to take medication and you manage your stress and keep things under control, you won’t have to worry about that. But unfortunately, too many people are going way down that path because of stressors at work, home stress, financial stress, which we know is a huge problem, and seven out of ten Americans are up to their eyeballs in debt and they’re like, you know, a paycheck missed away from catastrophe, and it’s like, okay, all right.

Michael Levitt: 27:27

Well, how do you fix that? You kind of have to correct some things and look for some opportunities, and there’s. You know, I do work in that area as well because, for me, of all the stressors that I had, financial stress was the worst, in my opinion, and the reason being is I don’t think anybody loves paying bills. I don’t think anybody raises their hand and says, oh yeah, I love paying bills, but I think we do like the ability to be able to pay bills. And I’ve been in the situation where I couldn’t and I didn’t like that at all, because it was such a dent to the ego. You feel frustrated, you feel like you’ve let somebody down, you feel all that. So I understand that feeling, first and foremost. So I know what it feels like when people are in those types of situations. So so I was like here’s some ways that you can address that and you know, ultimately, to get you back to the person you want to be, yeah, absolutely.

Todd Bertsch: 28:23

I think, too, michael, there’s a responsibility with the employers, right.

Todd Bertsch: 28:30

I think everyone should be tracking their time. Even as a 10 to 15 person agency that I’ve ran for 16 years, you know, for 14 of those years we’ve tracked our time and one like a CPA right or a law law firm it’s billable time, right. So we want to make sure that we’re profitable on the time spent on projects, but also tracking our time to make sure that we have a good work balance, that we’re not seeing employees burned out. So we’re actually taking a proactive part in our employees’ journey with us to say we understand that this can happen. We want you to do your best work, we want you to be here and stay here. So, from a retention this is probably something you talk about, but I just feel like who says it’s okay to work the amount of hours that you were working, you know? Was there anybody in your network? You know, your, your boss, who you reported to, or your spouse or your friends that say that we’re saying hey, Michael, dude like where the hell you been.

Todd Bertsch: 29:40

Like you’re, all you’re doing is working. I don’t know. You know what I mean. Like this felt like it shouldn’t all be on the person too. There should be these accountability partners, your tribe, right, that’s looking out for you and then that’s on you, right? If you’re just blowing them off or you’re not responding, then you’re already on burnout boulevard and there’s no coming back. So, anyhow, I don’t know, it was just something I wanted to mention. What are your thoughts on that?

Michael Levitt: 30:05

Oh, definitely. Yeah, my colleagues, the Tigers ticket crew, family, friends, you know, when I, after I was recovering from it, I asked them why didn’t you warn me? Do you see these things? Yeah, we saw. Why didn’t you say anything? We did, you wouldn’t listen. They all, they all did. And they, and they, they all gave examples of when they talked to me about different things and what they said, and I remembered them saying it.

Michael Levitt: 30:33

It was just like, basically, like you’re flipping around on television and you land on a station that has a different language than what you’re used to. So you hear them, you’re not comprehending what they’re saying. You hear them but you’re not comprehending. That was my situation. I wasn’t taking it in, I was hearing them, but you’re not comprehending. That was my situation. I just I wasn’t taking it in, I wasn’t. I was hearing them but I wasn’t listening. And you know, I think that it should have been a big eye-opening thing for me to go. Okay, I need to take some time and really work through this, and I did, until my heart says we’re going to go and we’re going to take a time out here. And we did Right, and we did.

Todd Bertsch: 31:12

Right, literally, yeah, literally, yeah, literally.

Michael Levitt: 31:15

Yeah, you’re laying there and they’re putting stents in your artery, which also is the left anterior descending artery, which in cardiology world they call that artery the widow maker and hence why the doctor said I should be dead.

Michael Levitt: 31:27

The actor, kevin Smith from the Clerks movies and Mallrats and all that. He had a heart scare a few years ago and that’s where his was, and he has made some significant health changes and choices. And all of that because he got that second chance. And he’s like, ooh, okay, I don’t want people to have to rely on a second chance. Don’t even spoil your chances. Live the life to the best of your ability. Be the best version of you. For you. It’s going to make your life so much better. Everything tastes better, experience things and nonsense.

Michael Levitt: 32:05

And Taylor Swift gets booed or whatever. The situation at Timely Super Bowl was yesterday. So you know, seeing that on social media, I’m like why are they booing Taylor? I’m like, okay, I was like, okay, people be people. Don’t get wrapped up in that kind of stuff, because it doesn’t, truly doesn’t matter. You know it’s like live your best life and design your life the way that you want it to be. And obviously you’re the architect of your own life, so design it. If you need to retrofit or change or renovate, by all means do it If it’s for the betterment of you. Guess what? The people you are around your friends, family, loved ones. They’re going to get the best version of you, and that’s what we all deserve from everybody.

Todd Bertsch: 32:47

Absolutely. Yeah, thinking back, michael, why do you think you were working so much? I know you say you asked a question to your clients. Why do you think, if you’re willing to share, that?

Michael Levitt: 33:01

For me it was a smaller community that I was in and I wanted and this was fully ego-driven, I wanted to be recognized as someone really, really important, that did some great things in that community. I just I wanted that and to this day I’m still working through. Well, why did I want that? You know the accolades and you know great job and we think you’re the best, or awards or anything like that. I look at those things now, or awards or anything like that. I look at those things now and I’m like, well, that’s cool, I don’t care about them.

Michael Levitt: 33:32

But back then I was trying to prove something and I wasn’t from that community. So I think that was part of it too, because I saw how in small communities and this can be in large ones too, but in small communities a lot of times we see when there’s somebody that’s new to the community, they can be viewed as a bit of an outsider and not given the same I don’t say treatment, but we’ll use that for now the same treatment as someone that’s been there for a long time. And I I don’t like seeing that. I don’t like people being treated that way. I like people should be treated as who they are. It doesn’t matter where they’re from, it’s who they are as a person. And so I think for me it was like, well, I’m going to prove them wrong, I’m going to prove them that I’m this and, you know, nearly killed myself by doing it. And then, of course, moved out of that community and haven’t been back since. So, and then, of course, moved out of that community and haven’t been back since, so it wasn’t that big of a deal for me now, but I see that and I still unpack it and go okay, why? Why is that? And that’s where the cognitive behavioral therapy and the neurolinguistic programming therapy that I got certifications in comes to play.

Michael Levitt: 34:53

And the reason why I did that was twofold. One, I get a better understanding of how my brain works when it does. And also, I kept coming up against time and time again, working with individuals in teams was their beliefs, their thoughts, the language they use on themselves, behaviors, habits, all those things kept coming up. I’m like, okay, why is this important? We use a technique. It’s called chunking up and chunking down. So, okay, why did you do this? Okay, well, why, you know, was that important to you?

Michael Levitt: 35:21

And then sometimes they can go back and forth a little bit, but it’s ultimately to get the person to start realizing yeah, I was doing this because I really wanted this, even though I was saying this. And it’s kind of a self-awareness thing and, as you know, most of us are blissfully unaware of ourselves and when we go to look within, sometimes that’s a very scary thing and a lot of people avoid it like the plague. I don’t want to look in myself, you’re you. But I understand why. Because that’s where the self-doubt, the self-judgment, the mistakes and all those things come up and flares up and in some cases it might even be some past trauma that has been unaddressed.

Michael Levitt: 35:59

So, they don’t want to go down that road, and I understand no pain, no pain, I get it. But if you want to move forward and progress and grow, you have to get an understanding of that. But again, that’s where the childlike curiosity comes into play, like, okay, let’s look at it as a little kid instead of your adult person. You’re looking at it as a kid and a lot of people find that a lot more approachable to approach things that way that way?

Todd Bertsch: 36:26

Yeah, I would agree. I think most people are afraid of what they’re going to find, right, they already know. But to go through an exercise or to do a life audit, they’re going to see some things that they’re not proud of. But yeah, it’s interesting. I think about how can we get people again to think about these things before something happens. And I would venture out to say that there are certain people and I’ll say you and I that have certain traits. I don’t know what your love language is, but I could guess that it’s words of affirmation, like me, and that I’m going to be more prone to burnout than somebody who does not have that love language. You know what I mean. So I think if we can identify some of those people and traits to get them more aware, so they don’t have to go through the process, we’re going to be better off. But yeah, it’s interesting.

Todd Bertsch: 37:25

It’s all every show I do, and probably you the same, and conversations speaking with companies or people and coaching them. It all comes back to just are they open? Are they open to this conversation? Who’s going to be open to listening to this episode about burnouts? Ironically, I talked about those two episodes I had on decision fatigue and work-life balance and not two of my most popular episodes, and I’m just like, wow, I mean, these are things that people need to listen to, but that subject matter has not been that popular. So, anyhow, I don’t know, I don’t know, is this taboo to talk about this? Is this a tough subject? I don’t know, but you’re definitely out there talking with companies, coaching, executive coaching, and then you also wrote another book, burnout Proof. I started going through that last week and that seems like a really great book, some really great nuggets that I took out of there. Tell us a little bit about that book and what we could find in there. We’ll have that in your other book in the show notes as well.

Michael Levitt: 38:27

Yeah, burnout Proof was again. After going through all the things and the signs of burnout and what to look for and all of that, I say, okay, I ain’t got to put something out there and I got to put it in a consumable format, which means not a Tim Ferriss tool of Titans length book. Don’t try to carry that book in a backpack. It’s like you got to get a bigger backpack. It’s huge, but mine isn’t and that’s intentional. I didn’t want it to be this long book because if you are burned out, okay here, read this 200-page book. I think most books are too long.

Todd Bertsch: 39:00

Anyhow, in my opinion, like really you can get your point across in 100 pages.

Michael Levitt: 39:05

Yeah, mine’s under that, you know, and say it’s because I want to get to the point. Here it is, here’s what the signs are, here’s, you know, and I even use burnout as an acronym, you know B for boundaries, u for upheaval or unhappy, I forget, because there’s two U’s in burnout, I forget which order it is. But upheaval your life’s upheaval. Rhythm R you’re out of rhythm. And neglect You’re neglecting your life. O is offsides You’re out of bounds, you’re not in the field of play or all of that. So B-U-R-N-O offside. And then U upheaval or unhappy your world’s upside down, or you’re not happy, and usually those go hand in hand. And T is time.

Michael Levitt: 39:43

We don’t do a good job of using the time we’re allocated. Time management is one of those things. A good job of using the time we’re allocated, time management is one of those things. You can’t manage time. The last 40 minutes are gone. They’re gone and we can’t do anything about it. But you can choose what you do with the time and have an understanding to your point of keeping track of your time at work. I think that in a way that can help people to have a better understanding of how they spend their life, because when I don’t have time to do this, like okay, well, let’s, let’s take a look at how you’re spending your time, and you know they don’t have any journals or other, unless they keep track of time at work. But outside of work they didn’t put down. Yeah, I watched disney plus for three hours last night. I’m not judging, I’m not saying that’s good, bad or indifferent, just know how you’re spending your time.

Michael Levitt: 40:29

So, if you want to do something in addition, we all get 24. We need to sleep or rest. At least a third of that give or take. Some people need a little more, some people need less. Figure out what works out for you. And then you’ve got your work hours and commute time and all of that. So you’ve got this block of time for the rest of it that you can devote to you. Okay, well, how are you devoting it to you? What are you doing? What are some of the things you can do, whether it’s instead of watching something on Disney Plus or Netflix or all the other streaming services, maybe you watch an online class, or you learn a new skill to better yourself at work, or maybe a side hustle, or maybe you want to switch careers. Okay, I want to learn how to code. Well, there’s no shortage of things on YouTube University on learning how to do things, so there’s no excuse. We’ve never had an easier access to information to us. So figure out what you want to do, try it out. If you don’t like it, do something else.

Michael Levitt: 41:30

But ultimately all of those things came together in the book and then I was getting ready to release it and then this thing called the COVID-19 pandemic hit. So I went, I pulled it back. I was getting ready to release it. I’m like nope, don’t, don’t, don’t. And I added a chapter on that. Now, that was early into the pandemic, so there’s obviously things that I would update from that. But it was again, as I alluded to before. When the pandemic started, I thought, okay, finally, yes, this horrible disease that is killing a lot of people might help kill burnout. But no, no, no, it brought gasoline and they saw the burnout fire and they went smoosh and it just it took off and for a lot of additional reasons, and so it’s been.

Michael Levitt: 42:18

It’s been an interesting few years, to say the least, and for me and I say this all the time nothing would make me happier than burnout to go away. I’ll go find something else to do. I I’m not worried about that, but it’s still here. I don’t like seeing it. I hate seeing people fall apart or lose their jobs or anything else because they’re burned out. It doesn’t have to be that way. I know what it’s like to get into it, I know what it’s like to get out of it and I know what it’s like to stay out of it. And ultimately, that’s where you want to be. You want to get out of it and ultimately you want to stay out of it. Because I had burned out once, I should have died from it. I’m not rolling the dice on that one again. No, thank you. Don’t want to, and no one else should either.

Todd Bertsch: 43:02

Yeah, yeah, I agree Absolutely. What advice do you have for aspiring leaders? You know? If there’s someone looking to grow as a leader, you know what. What advice do you have for aspiring leaders? You know, if there’s someone looking to grow as a leader, you know what advice would you give them to help them avoid burnout or develop some sustainable you know process.

Michael Levitt: 43:21

Yeah, for me and this goes back to a colleague of mine, virginia Mooskies, who taught me this this was back in 2018. So not that long ago, but a while ago she said color code your calendar. Now, if you’re colorblind, that’s a cruel joke. You won’t be able to see the colors. Use your favorite symbol if you’re colorblind, but what you do is you keep track of your life, you journal your life.

Michael Levitt: 43:48

Calendars tend to be easiest because they’ve got the time blocks and all of that, but you can do it in a written format too if you want. But color code your calendar, so your work stuff is this way you can get as deep as you want. If you do all kinds of different things through work, you can color code them. So phone calls is one color, podcast interviews is another, writing is another, coaching calls or clients or keynotes whatever you want to do, come up with it. There’s plenty of symbols and plenty of colors to choose from. But also your me time or your self-care time, your personal time or the time that you do things that you like to do, whether it’s going to the movies, going golfing, going on a walk, shopping, going out for coffee or drinks with your friends, whatever Color code. That as well. And her tip was for the me time or just for you time, use your favorite color or, if you’re colorblind, your favorite symbol. The reason being is I can look at my calendar and it’s got text and everything like that, but I can squint and not see the text, but I still see the colors. If I don’t see enough of my favorite color, I know that week I’m not allocating enough time for me, so I can adjust it. We all like, especially those of us that have OCD, and I have a poster that says I have CDO, which is OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order as they should be. But it’s a situation where we nothing will make us. It was funny. We said I wish everything would just stay the same and be consistent, but then we get bored and irritated if things haven’t changed. It’s a nasty cycle, brother, it is. It is so.

Michael Levitt: 45:27

Understand that each day and each week can look different. Yes, you have using a bumper bowling analogy. Yeah, you’ve got a thing to keep the ball on the track, to hit the pins, but it’s going to move around a little bit. So understanding that and getting comfortable with that will help you to be able to navigate through those times of dealing with what you need to do. I think of Jim Rohn and Brian Tracy, both of them goal-oriented tasks. Be your best, set yourself up for success.

Michael Levitt: 45:59

All of that and it’s like every day you pick one or two things on your goals list to work on. Does that mean you’re going to work on those exclusively? No, if you’re running a business, who knows what you could face? It could be client calls they need this yesterday, or toilets backed up, or someone’s got the flu, or I need to do this, or you name it. It’s basically an encyclopedia of everything that could happen to disrupt what you want to do. Today gets thrown at you. If you look that up, that’s called Monday or any other day.

Michael Levitt: 46:33

But understanding, okay, what can I control? This is a stress management tip. What can I control in this particular situation? I can control my emotions towards it, because being upset and well, that’s going to take your clarity and attention away from the situation and you’re just going to be focusing on the uh, and that’s the amygdala. That’s the amygdala talking. I have a nickname, I call it amygdala and I tell amy she needs to shut the hell up but that’s a great uh mnemonic device yeah, but the amygdala is designed for our protection.

Michael Levitt: 47:07

Amygdala, yeah, so, yeah, so if anybody with the name Amy G, I apologize, it’s not directed at you, but it’s just that something that came up and it’s like sometimes I go, okay, I think Amy G is talking, all right, hold on and just, you know, recenter yourself to. Okay. Now, this is what I need to work on and it’s again, it’s not as much as we all would love to set it and forget it. That’s not how life is. Life is ever-evolving and moving and flowing and the idea is to just, if you’re a surfboarder, grab the board and look for the good waves and go after them, and there’s going to be some where it’s going to be calm and you’re like, okay, you know, it’s just a case of understanding that and going, okay, what can I do in this particular moment that can help me move my initiatives forward, or what’s good for me forward, and give yourself the permission to do so?

Todd Bertsch: 48:03

yeah, yeah, I love it. Good stuff, Michael, and we talk a lot on this show about calendars and time and time management and different techniques. Absolutely, mine is a rainbow of colors, but I loved I actually never thought about the squint and actually looking at my calendar like proactively, like the week ahead, or even in reflection the week back, to say what was the percentage of color that was for work or personal, right, like you said, to have that 888, the third split up. So that’s interesting, I like that. And to choose your favorite color. Yeah, good, good tips there. I absolutely love that. So I did want to talk about, too, your podcast. So you have a great show, the Breakfast Leadership Show, in the top 2% globally, which I’ll tell you guys, that is kudos to you, congrats, cause that is that is hard to get. Not a lot of podcasts are in that top 2%, so it must be a good show. I listened to a couple episodes. I liked your last one with Mike. I believe his name Mike Felding. Mike Felding, that was a good one.

Todd Bertsch: 49:14

Oh, yeah, yeah, but tell us a little bit about your show and what it’s about and what kind of guests you have on the show.

Michael Levitt: 49:20

I have amazing people. I know you’re coming up on it too. Yeah, I always love talking with fellow podcasters, but it’s not like we’re talking a secret shop that none of you non-podcasters know. No, we just have conversations. We end up being conversationalists.

Michael Levitt: 49:38

It started back in 2017, and it was something that I reluctantly started because a good colleague of mine said you know what, when are you going to do a podcast? I’m like what? What are you talking about? Why do I need to do a podcast? I said just do a podcast.

Michael Levitt: 49:53

Record five minute segments on how to avoid this type of burnout or how to deal with this. Just go do that, just throw it out there. It’s a people benefit, because people are consuming your stuff anyway. Maybe they want to listen to it instead of reading an article. It would be quick. They can listen to it on the way to work or wherever they’re going. It’s quick segments, not a whole lot of time or effort. So I did so.

Michael Levitt: 50:17

I recorded like 50 or 60 episodes like that, and then he calls me up and he goes hey, good job on the podcast, thank you. It’s like yeah, it’s kind of hitting its its stride. I mean, you know, I could do some stuff, maybe not release them as frequently. So well, you should start interviewing people, what? No, I don’t want to interview people. How do I even do that? And he goes. Well, how do you use to record? And you know you zoom I like a zoom you send them the link and you add them to the meeting there Record Go. I’m like I don’t want to do that and it’s like just try it and see. Well, you know we’re approaching 900 episodes now, so apparently I tried it and liked it.

Todd Bertsch: 51:01

Yeah, what’s the cadence to get that? Are you doing?

Michael Levitt: 51:05

multiple a week. Yeah, usually multiple a week. It ebbs and flows. I typically try to take the end of the year off for sure, and then Avoid burnout. Avoid burnout. Yep yeah, I don’t want to. I got to eat my own dog food is a tech term that I learned a long time ago.

Michael Levitt: 51:25

It’s like that’s for tech companies that sell software. You better use it internally for something so you can see the pain and agony your clients are dealing with, and it’s actually a good way to do it. But for me I usually try to take a month off here and there of recording, especially if I get a big batch of episodes. You know, the beginning of this year it was pretty loaded. So the way that this world is, who knows what we could be doing? You know, we may all be in the new alien band. I don’t know. We don’t know what’s happening. Then I barely know what’s going to happen tomorrow. I mean, it’s on my calendar but I still don’t know what’s going to happen.

Michael Levitt: 52:00

So for me it’s like I try to build in some blocks there and sometimes I’ll I’ll break my own rules. It’s okay, you can do that. But I’ll okay, my own rules. It’s okay, you can do that. But I’m like, okay, I want to book this show or I’ll go on a show, for example, and just do it that way. But yeah, I try to release. There’s at least one episode a week. There was a period where I was releasing episodes every day because I built up such a backlog. I’m like it’s not fair to these guests to have them wait forever for this, so it’s like I just started cranking them out and getting them out more and trying to land on probably three times a week obviously is an ebb and flow thing.

Michael Levitt: 52:35

Thankfully, with it being my show, the boss is me, so I can argue with them as far as how many episodes. If I was part of a studio or something like that, it’d be something different, but I’m not at this point, so I’ve got a lot more flexibility in that I talk to global thought leaders on anything and everything. You know just people that have you know, either new authors or business, small business people, to executives, to astronauts, to you name it conductors of orchestras Everybody’s got a story that can benefit somebody, and that’s the power of story is like hearing something you may grab onto a nugget, like something that you and I talked about today. Someone watching or listening may go. I’m gonna try that and it might make their life a little bit easier. If that happens, I’m ecstatic, I’m thrilled, like that’s great. I’m glad that helped you and I have these conversations.

Michael Levitt: 53:27

I and I know you know this too I grow from these. I get excited. I write down notes, things, ideas and stuff that improves me. Yes, I’m interviewing somebody, but I’m getting stuff from them too, and ideas are different ways to approach things or oh, I didn’t know that you could do that, or who knows, there could be a lot of different things. So it’s a blast. I have so much fun with it. I appreciate Steve and Kelly too. It’s been amazing. I enjoy that kind of it.

Todd Bertsch: 53:56

Cool, yeah, I love a lot of the same aspects, Michael, and we’ll have that in the show notes. I highly recommend, you know, our listeners check that out. Another great show on leadership and just getting 1% better. So, Michael, it’s been a blast having you on here sharing your words of wisdom on burnout and just your, you know, getting vulnerable with us and sharing your personal experience. I don’t want to say it’s a great story, right, because we hate to have somebody that needs to go through something like that, but I think it’s a powerful story and we’re blessed that you made it through that and now you’re able to share that. And you know, just like myself, you know, like you just said it the goal here is really to affect one person, not to have one person say, hey, you know what? Maybe I will, I will make a change. That’s, that’s all it takes, why we do what we do and we’re learning and growing and, uh, that’s really the goal here. It’s a infinite game. We’re just on this journey and trying to embrace it and get a little bit better each day. But I appreciate you, man, and I look forward to being on your show. So thank you for your time, my friend, we’ll talk soon. Be well, thank you, todd.

Todd Bertsch: 55:05

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bolt Podcast. You’re on an inspiring journey of growth, transformation and joy and I’m honored to be a part of it. If you found this episode valuable, please like share it with your friends and consider leaving a review. It means the world to us For show notes, resources and to subscribe to the weekly Motivational Monday newsletter. Please visit ToddBertsch.com. Weekly Motivational Monday newsletter. And don’t forget to follow us on social media at the Bolt with Todd B for more inspiration. Remember, real change doesn’t happen overnight. Folks Start small, stay consistent and watch as your growth unfolds. See you next time, thank you.